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The 3rd Advisory Council for Policy Evaluation and Administrative Work Review, 2026 [Publication process]

Last Updated:

Outline

For an overview of this Advisory Council, please refer to the 2026 Guidelines for Policy Evaluation and Administrative Work Review .

Event Information

Date and time of the
Monday, June 29, 2026 from 15:00 to 17:00
Place
Holding of hybrid

Summary of the proceedings

  • 1. Opening
  • 2. Proceedings
    • ① Digital marketplace (DMP) catalog site
      • 1. Business Description
      • 2. Questions and Discussions
      • 3) Gathering opinions
    • (ii) National qualification information coordination and utilization system
      • 1. Business Description
      • 2. Questions and Discussions
      • 3) Gathering opinions
  • 3) Closing

Data

Related Documentation

Conference video

Minute

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: Now, I would like to open the 2026 Digital Agency Policy Evaluation and Administrative Work Review Public Process.
Today's proceedings will be hosted by Sueyama from Director for Policy Planning, Digital Agency.
Also, today's meeting will be held using a web conference system.
First of all, Mr. Digital Agency Morita, Deputy Director-General, General Manager of Group of Strategy and Organization, will give an opening address. Thank you very much.

General Manager of Deputy Director-General: Digital Agency General Manager of Group of Strategy and Organization This is Morita from Deputy Director-General.
Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedules to join us.
Today's public disclosure process was selected in Digital Agency in light of the selection standards, etc. of the Administrative Project Review Implementation Procedures, and was also approved by experts. We will discuss two projects: a digital marketplace (DMP) catalog site and a system for coordinating and utilizing information on national qualifications, etc. The DMP catalog site is a procurement method that utilizes the catalog site search for the purpose of speeding up the procurement of cloud software (SaaS) by ministries and local governments and diversifying procurement sources including small and medium-sized enterprises and startups. In addition, the system for coordinating and utilizing information on national qualifications, etc. is to promote digitalization, such as making various application procedures online and certifying and presenting credential information, by utilizing My Number System at a time when many national qualifications related affairs are operated on the premise of paper media. Both are projects that contribute to improving the convenience of citizens and improving the efficiency of administrative management.
We would like to have lively discussions with experts to improve the quality of this project from the viewpoint of implementing EBPM in the Administrative Project Review, and from the viewpoint of whether the policy objectives, target setting, and approach are appropriate.
Thank you for coming today.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Now, let me introduce the outside experts attending today. Today's open process is attended by a total of five outside experts: two outside experts appointed by Digital Agency and three outside experts appointed by the Cabinet Secretariat Secretariat for Administrative Reform and Efficiency.
First, I would like to introduce Dr. Ichiro Sato, Professor of Information and Society Studies, National Institute of Informatics, who chairs this Advisory Panel.

Chairman SATO: , please.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: Committee Member Sato is expected to serve as a chairperson to advance the discussion and to consolidate opinions at the end.
Next, I would like to introduce the members of the committee. Naoko Iwasaki, a professor at the Institute of e-Government and Local Governments, Waseda University, and a member of the committee.

CR: Thank you, Nice to meet you.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: He was followed by Professor Emeritus at Keio University, Eisai Chairship Foundation, and Yasuhiro Ota, a committee member.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in Nice to meet you.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: , Professor of the Graduate School of Economics, Hitotsubashi University, and committee member Motohiro Sato.

SATU: Nice to meet you.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: Next, JAPAN POST INSURANCE Co., Ltd. Executive Fellow and Commissioner Mana Nakazora.

Member: Hiroshi , thank you.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: Committee members Ryo Kambayashi, a professor in the Department of Economics, Faculty of Economics, Musashi University, and Munehiko Sasajima, a professor in the Graduate School of Information Science, University of Hyogo Prefecture, will be absent from the meeting today due to business.
I would like to ask the five external experts mentioned above to join me today.
Next, I will explain today's proceedings. Today's disclosure process covers two projects: the digital marketplace (DMP) catalog site project and the national qualification information collaboration and utilization system project. First, the person in charge of the DMP catalog site project will explain the project. After that, we would like to receive frank opinions and questions about the project from the members of the committee. After that, we will make an announcement about seven minutes before the end of the discussion. We would like each member to give a final comment. After that, on behalf of the members, Chairman Sato will compile comments, and after receiving approval from the members of the committee, it will be finalized. Next, the national qualification information collaboration and utilization system project will be carried out in the same flow.
Regarding the meeting, in order to prevent noise and howling, microphones are normally set to off. When you make a speech, please raise your hand or press the button for raising your hand on the system. Then, the chairman will designate you. At that time, please make a speech with the microphone turned on, and after you finish your speech, please turn it back off.
Now, from here on, discussions will be held by external experts. I would like to ask Chairman Sato to facilitate the meeting. Thank you very much, Chairman Sato.

Chairman SATO: . I will proceed immediately.
First of all, I have a few things to say before that, but today is actually the third time. However, since this is the first time that it has become an open process, those who are listening may be concerned about past discussions. Basically, we will look back on the past discussions, and the committee members will ask questions in response to the explanation. Therefore, although some questions or answers may be somewhat abrupt, I hope you understand that point.
So, this time, we are going to focus on two businesses, the first is the catalog site of Digital Marketplace (DMP).
Then, are you ready? Then, I would like you to explain from Mr. Yoshida in charge. Thank you.

Group in charge: and I am a Director for Policy Planning in Digital Agency. In my part, I am going to talk about the Digital Marketplace (DMP) catalog site, and I would like to give you an overview of the business.
On the first page, there is an overview, so I would like you to check it. After this, I will explain the contents in order using PowerPoint.
To begin with, what exactly is a digital marketplace? This is an initiative to procure so-called Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) for ministries and local governments. One is an initiative to promote the diversification of suppliers, including small and medium-sized enterprises and startups. Regarding the procurement of the government and local governments, there have been many cases where we procured things to build systems from scratch. For these things, the burden of designing procurement specifications or proposing actual procurement specifications was very heavy on both business operators and administrative agencies. In addition, the procurement period itself was long. The major vendors had more advantages and the barrier to entry was very high.
On the other hand, as cloud-based software is currently becoming widespread, when it actually becomes SaaS, there are many things that have already been determined, such as what purpose it will be used for and what specifications it will have. We have been working on this in such a way that business operators can register such things on catalog sites, and administrative agencies can expedite procurement by searching and selecting it according to their procurement specifications.
In proceeding with this, we have a similar system in the United Kingdom, and we are referring to it. A similar system started in the United Kingdom in 2012, and it is already 14 years old. In particular, as of 2009, 18 companies accounted for 80% of the total, while 90% of registered vendors were small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and startup vendors, contributing to the diversification of procurement sources and leading to the acceleration of procurement for administrative agencies.
In response to these initiatives, we in Digital Agency have also been considering this matter since fiscal 2022, and have been preparing to release an official version at the end of fiscal 2025.
The actual digital marketplace will be able to procure cloud software and SaaS licenses as I just mentioned, along with installation support for on-site installation, as a set. Items not subject to procurement are those for non-business purposes and software including hardware, which are not subject to procurement.
As shown in the figure below, on this catalog site itself, as I just mentioned, software companies and sales companies will register software information and sales services, which can then be searched by government agencies. Here, some general users can use the search function without logging in. However, for actual procurements and selections, you will be asked to create a log-in account. This is the system for use in procurement.
Although this is a differentiation from private services, there are private services for SaaS search services that private business operators actually use. In addition, there are already private services for checking the past procurement records of administrative agencies. However, regarding the procurement of SaaS specialized for administrative agencies, there is currently no service for searching what kind of software is available. In this way, we are trying to differentiate ourselves to a certain extent.
We will actually use this system for procurements, but business operators are required to obtain a unified certification from all Ministries, and an account for a certification mechanism called gBizID, and after signing a basic contract, they are required to register software services. At the time of procurements, administrative agencies similarly agree to the terms of use, and then register users. Then, for planning and examination of software, procurement specifications are organized based on a procurement-specification check sheet, and then, searches and selections are made according to the conditions. When multiple companies are selected, procurement can be made in the form of designated competitive bidding, and when one of them is selected in the case of unilateral bidding, it can be made in the form of discretionary contract. By adopting such a system, in general, in general competitive bidding, etc., the lead time required for the public notice period, etc. can be considerably shortened.
As for the actual value provided by the DMP and the KPI, the major value provided is the creation of opportunities for matching actual software with government and business operators, and by actually using it in procurement, I think there is value in promoting the speed and diversification of procurement. I will explain the matching in particular later, but actually, as KPIs, the number of registered business operators and software, the number of registered administrative users, and the number of searches are relevant, I think.
Regarding how much procurement has actually progressed, one point is the number of procurements, and another point is, from the perspective of diversifying procurement sources, how much the procurement ratio of small and medium-sized enterprises and startups has spread, which I believe will be the key point.
As of the end of last fiscal year, the number of registered business operators is 387, and the number of registered software is 479. About 1,200 searches are conducted every week, and the number of registered administrative users, which I mentioned earlier, is 714, meaning that about 400 local governments have been registered.
However, currently, there are only 6 cases of procuring through procurement methods using the actual digital marketplace. These are 2 cases in Digital Agency and 4 cases in municipalities, which means that small and medium-sized enterprises and startups account for about two-thirds. For this reason, the timing when the procuring function of this digital marketplace was actually released was just before the period of procurement in the previous fiscal year, and there were many cases where the procuring party had already been decided, which resulted in a limited procuring result.
Regarding the current issues and the direction of our response, we believe it is important to further increase matching by continuing to increase the number of software service registrations by business operators and increasing the number of registrations of administrative users. However, as I highlighted in the figures earlier, there are areas where procurement performance by administrative users has not improved sufficiently, so we recognize that providing some form of remedy for this is an urgent issue for us as well.
As one way to respond to this, we are also creating PR content to promote the use of DMPs. For example, we have created a logo for the digital marketplace, and by having business operators display this, we aim to spread awareness among local governments and administrative agencies of what software can actually be searched using DMPs. In addition, through posters, video, etc., we are explaining in an easy-to-understand manner how to actually promote the use of DMPs, thereby further expanding understanding of the mechanism of DMPs. This is what we are working on as an initiative.
That's all from me.

Chairman SATO: .
Here, I would like to ask questions regarding what you have just explained. Several points of contention have emerged in the past two discussions. First of all, I would like to hear opinions from each committee member on these points of contention, and on the other hand, I would like to have discussions on matters that are not here, of course.
I would like to ask the committee members their frank questions and opinions. Thank you very much.
Committee Member Sato, please.

SATU: Nice to meet you.
As for my first point of contention, although there has been little growth in our performance, if you look at the review sheet, the project started in 2023. Therefore, it is included in the review sheet.

Chairman SATO: , Committee Member Satoh, can I ask just one question? The review sheet has not yet been disclosed to the public, which is part of the disclosure process. In addition, there are some areas where the figures have not yet been finalized. Therefore, you can ask questions on the sheet, but if the figures have not been finalized, will the Nuclear Fuel Division state that this is different?

SATU: , I would like to confirm something. As a result of the review sheet, the number of procurements in FY 2024 and FY 2025 was six in FY 2025. The target was actually 13, but it was 6. In FY 2024, the target was 5, but it was 0. In last year's explanation, it was said that the operators had already been decided in the supplementary budget, but considering that at least two years have passed, it is only my feeling that it would have been better if there had been a few more administrative agencies that were interested in some way even in the last year. On the contrary, if the number of registered local governments is increasing, some of them may wonder why it is difficult to make a contract using DMP. Some business operators have also registered, so on the other hand, whether there were direct inquiries to them, whether there were actually inquiries, not just viewing, and whether such investigations are being conducted. That is my first question.

Group in charge: .
First of all, in fiscal year 2024, the function to be procured had not yet been released, and this did not lead to actual procurement.
On top of that, why the procurement has not actually progressed? We want local governments to use it more, and we have been doing a lot of marketing to local governments, but in that process, it has become clear to us that on-site staff are not yet aware of the existence of SaaS itself. Until now, it has been rather focused on developing a system from scratch, but first of all, it has become clear that it is necessary to recognize that there is a cloud service called SaaS.
Another point is that even if local officials have an understanding of SaaS, it is the finance and accounting departments that actually make procurement decisions. There are many cases where these finance and accounting departments are not aware of the procurement process that is compatible with SaaS in the first place. In addition, the accounting rules of local governments have not yet been organized in a way that corresponds to DMP. This has become known to be a considerable bottleneck for introduction.
We would like to clearly explain to them that if accounting rules are organized in this way, they can be used in procurement.
Also, as you asked in the latter half of your question, we would like to know how many inquiries were actually made from local governments to software companies through the DMP. We have not been able to measure the exact number of such inquiries, but we have actually heard from local governments that they made inquiries to vendors they learned about through the DMP, or that the number of inquiries from vendors increased after the DMP was posted here. Therefore, although we cannot show the actual number of such inquiries, qualitatively speaking, we are aware that such inquiries are caused by the creation of the DMP.
That's all.

SATU: .
There are some problems in evaluating this type of project. One of the problems is that not much time has passed. The fact that the number of contracts has not progressed is largely due to a problem of recognition or a problem of needs. If the recognition is not enough, we should increase it. This is my kind of evaluation or comment. That includes, of course, sales activities, I think. However, if there is a real need, it is a more fundamental problem. For example, local governments have already made contracts with various private sector companies. This could be a case of vender lock-in, for better or worse. Once a system is purchased, it will be used for a while, so it may be just that it has not yet reached the time to renew it. Is it a problem of needs or a problem of awareness? How much do you think Digital Agency will do?

Group in charge: We understand that it is a matter of awareness, and we recognize that there are a certain number of local governments that procure SaaS in general procurement scenes other than this DMP. Under such circumstances, especially in advanced local governments, but in local governments that are not advanced local governments and that have not yet advanced the procurement of information systems, the existence of SaaS itself is not well recognized, and the existence of this DMP itself is not recognized. I recognize that it is important to solve such issues of recognition.

SATU: I understand. That's all for now.

Chairman SATO: Probably, what Commissioner Satoh said is that if there are 1,200 accesses per week, there is a possibility that the person has been recognized. In response to this, Bureau of Natural Resources mentioned the issue of recognition, but I think you asked the question with the intention of not only that.
Then, as we have time, I would like other committee members to join us.
, I would like to ask you, Committee Chairman Hiroshi Nakada.

Member: Hiroshi , thank you.
As Committee Member Sato has just mentioned, I would like to delve deeper into whether there is a need. 1,200 is 1,200 out of what we expected. There are how many local governments that could potentially respond. Is it 1,200 out of them? Even if it is 1,200, I am not sure if it is a lot or a little. So, I would like to know something that can be a guideline around this area. That is my first question.
I feel that it would be nice if it existed in the first place, but I would like to know how the behavior of people has changed in local governments that originally use SaaS in places other than those listed here. In other words, if people who know about SaaS in other places are already dealing with it in other places, and they will not be newly involved even if this is done, if we have to start with an action to increase the original recognition of SaaS even though we do not know SaaS, I feel that we are doing something infinitely far, so I have a feeling that it is meaningless unless we know the degree of SaaS for a considerable percentage of people who you think should be the target Digital Agency, which is my second point.
And third, what about the fee for listing, or listing fee, or the fee for using the items listed here? In the answer to the question by Commissioner Sato, it was mentioned that qualitatively the needs are increasing, but it means that it will not be possible to continue with other services. What do you mean by that? What should we do with the funds?
Finally, I would like to add one more point. I think the people listed here are from the private sector. Have there ever been cases where these people post their own catalogs to do the same thing at a lower price and there are complaints?
I would like you to tell us about these four points briefly.

Group in charge: .
First of all, regarding the first point on how much search volume is appropriate, I believe, but we have just started this area, and to be honest, at this point in time, we did not have a clear numerical value that would actually increase the number of searches by this much.
In this regard, we would like to follow the timeline to some extent and re-examine the appropriate number. This is my first point.

Member: Hiroshi Number of potential municipalities Or rather, we want various people to do it. When you say people doing SaaS, how many parameters are there?

Group in charge: That is the parameter of the municipality.

Member: Hiroshi municipality and people who want to integrate SaaS.

Group in charge: People who want to add SaaS are providing SaaS for administrative purposes. We don't know how many business operators are providing it.
As far as administrative organizations are concerned, there are 20 central government ministries and agencies, and approximately 1,800 local governments. However, we also believe that it would be quite difficult for the 1,800 people to use the Internet at the same time. This also relates to the second question. Initially, there may be several tens of local governments, but I think our immediate goal is to have people in about two digits of local governments use the Internet properly.
As for the second question, many of the local governments that are actually saying that they would like to actively use DMP have already procured SaaS. Among those local governments, some of them are actually saying that they would like to review the procurement rules of their local governments in line with this DMP. Therefore, as I mentioned earlier, it is important to properly target several dozens of such local governments in order to achieve initial results.
As for the third part about the fee, as you mentioned, I am aware that there is an argument that if there is a benefit to the business operators, they should be charged for that benefit. However, as I mentioned earlier, we have not yet obtained sufficient results. If we go ahead with this part, we may not be able to attract enough business operators who will register. Therefore, I am thinking that once we have a certain amount of actual procurement results in the form of figures, we will consider it, including what price is appropriate to take.
The fourth and last point is whether business operators are complaining that the cost is cheaper when they procure outside the DMP mechanism. However, there is no such thing yet. This is because of the digital marketplace mechanism, we ask vendors to register their standard prices. As for government users, when they log in, they can see the standard price. Moreover, when you make an inquiry from there, you can get a quotation from the vendor in a normal way. Therefore, we have a function where we can estimate how much it will cost, and we have confirmed the cost beforehand. On the other hand, we have not received any procurement results yet. I think this is the reason why we have not seen any issues or complaints.

Member: Hiroshi , once the prices are known among the vendors, there is no problem of price convergence.

Group in charge: This is something that is invisible between vendors. That's exactly where the login function is set up, and by creating a mechanism where the standard price can be seen only when the so-called municipality or government officials logs in, the system is designed so that the standard price can be seen only on the government officials side, and the vendors cannot see each other's.

Member: Hiroshi I see. Thank you very much.

Chairman SATO: .
Do you have any other questions?
Committee Member Ota, please.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in So, regarding the numbers, the review sheet has not been finalized yet, but am I correct in understanding that it costs about 300 million yen to 400 million yen per year?

Group in charge: Currently, the operating cost is 110 million yen.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in The numbers 300 million and 400 million.

Group in charge: In fact, in fiscal 2024, we were operating a demonstration version, and in parallel, we were developing an official version. There was a period of time, and the cost for that was a little higher, and the budget was larger.
In the areas that have entered the actual operation phase, the number of operations is approximately 110 million.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I think they sometimes renovate it.

Group in charge: That's right. The renovation part is about 50 million at present.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in : About 50 million yen. In that case, it would cost about 110 million yen each time, but sometimes about 50 million yen every few years.

Group in charge: As for the current budget request, let's see, we will take about 1.1 yen for the operation cost, and for the renovation cost.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in If you look at the number of searches at present, there are 1,200 searches. Considering that many government offices are closed on weekends, there are 240 searches per day. In terms of the budget amount per search, this is extremely expensive, so how much do you plan to increase this to?

Group in charge: We do not currently have such a goal, but unless the number of registered business operators and the number of registered local government users grow, we will not be able to find a number of searches commensurate with that.
Currently, we aim to increase the number of software applications to around 750 and the total number of users to around 1,000 by the end of this fiscal year. Currently, the number of business operators is around 400, and we are aiming to increase this number by around 1.6 times. I believe it would be good to increase the number of software applications by around 1.6 to 2 times every fiscal year.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in , at present the number of contracts concluded is six. What is the amount?

Group in charge: ¥ 28 million.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in In that case, how many searches are required to get one when there are 6 searches against the total number of searches?

Group in charge: Assuming that about 1,200 times 5 is one month, there are about 6,000 searches per month, so multiply that by 12 to get 6 / 72000.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in Then, it is like 1 contract per a little over 10000.
So, if you increase the number of subscribers, the number of searches will also increase. How much more subscribers will increase the number of searches?

Group in charge: It is a place that has not been fully calculated.
On the procurement track record, how we measure the number of procurements is, we have vendors register actual procurements from local governments and count them as the number of procurements.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in , there is a possibility that information has been leaked.

Group in charge: That's right. So, in our recent investigation, we found the possibility that there are parts that are missing, so here we write six cases.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in It may be underestimated.

Group in charge: That's right. Therefore, we are planning to come up with ways to collect data more accurately in the future. I would appreciate it if you could see these figures as such.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in In the successful United Kingdom, Do you know the number of searches and the number of contracts?

Group in charge: In the United Kingdom, the system itself is only SaaS in our case, but in the United Kingdom, for example, IaaS, which is the core of the system, is a system in which it can be procured including the infrastructure of the cloud. Also, as for the actual part of the renovation, there is a system in which you can search and choose things like outsourcing the renovation to IT consultants. It is not quite an Apple-to-Apple comparison. For example, the G-Cloud on page 4 in this document is a number as of 2018, but in this, about 2,856 businesses are registered. However, as I mentioned earlier, this number is the registration of businesses including IaaS and PaaS, so it is necessary to thin out the numbers. In fact, this has actually grown to this point over six years starting in 2012, and we have a track record of this, so it is necessary to compare it as such.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in The reason why we did not adopt the same scope as that of the U.K. is that we did something aggressive.

Group in charge: In actual IT procurement, including IaaS and PaaS, or on top of that, for example, outsourcing development to procure a system, the specifications will become considerably complicated, and we are aware of the problem that we may have to use a procurement method similar to so-called general competitive bidding. Moreover, rather than suddenly dealing with all procurement, we thought it would be better to start with something more effective, so we have started by focusing on SaaS procurement.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in To put it bluntly, expanding the scope will increase development costs.

Group in charge: development costs will naturally increase, and it will be quite difficult to differentiate it from the general competitive bidding system.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in How is it resolved in the UK?

Group in charge: As for the United Kingdom, we have not sufficiently looked at the extent to which the United Kingdom procures IaaS and commissioned development in DMP. However, when we look at the Japanese system, we cannot find much difference there. That is why we have narrowed it down to SaaS.

Chairman SATO: , do you still have it?

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I want to ask you only one more thing.

Chairman SATO: Okay. There are other people waiting.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I understand.
I have only one more question. Did the service start later than planned?

Group in charge: Well, the release of function, which is actually used for procurement, has been delayed a little.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I see. I wanted to ask you when you plan to launch properly and make a prediction for taking a commission, but we are not at that stage yet.

Group in charge: Well, first of all, we will make an initial use case properly, and how to bring it to a state where it can be used normally is our challenge, I think.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in That's all for me.

Chairman SATO: .
In that case, committee member Iwasaki, please.

CR: Thank you, . Thank you very much for your explanation.
As Mr. Satoh, the Chair, mentioned at the beginning, I have participated in two meetings so far, and I believe we have had repeated discussions and very careful discussions with Mr. Digital Agency. From the perspective of policy evaluators, this website itself can be used to reduce the financial burden of procurement for local governments, or it can be used to promote regional revitalization or support SMEs and startups, so it is significant for both the public and private sectors. I believe that successful examples of reducing the financial burden, such as the case of the United Kingdom, will continue to serve as a reference for Japan as well.
At present, it seems that the number of local governments using the system is increasing, but the actual results are still small, so how to increase them in the future will be important. In addition, even if the actual usage rate increases, it will be procurement using financial resources from the supplementary budget, so how can this be done autonomously? Also, the most important thing is to spread understanding of the system to the finance and accounting departments, etc. It is generally said that there are cases where local employees want to use the system but cannot do so due to organizational rules or lack of understanding. Therefore, I think it is important not only to create a system but also how to promote it.
As for public relations and promotion costs, reviews on how much the number of recognized and used cases has increased in terms of quantity may be useful in the future. However, as I said before, there is a considerable difference depending on the local government. For example, there are many issues that many local governments have, such as small local governments, municipalities with personal information, and lack of cooperation with the finance department. I think that actions to solve these issues will take more time and cost.
In the United Kingdom, it has been several years since the initiative was launched, and I believe that there are quite a number of issues that are not so simple as to produce results immediately. Therefore, my impression is that learning from those cases and lessons learned will be an issue for the future.
That's it.

Chairman SATO: .
May I ask you a question again? First I received a question from Committee Member Sato that the number of searches that lead to contracts is small. Now, Committee Member Ota said that the conversion rate is around 0.05%, which is like one search for 10,000 items. To be honest, the conversion rate for BtoC is surprisingly low, but I have to give the impression that it is extremely low for BtoB. The reason why it is difficult to conclude a contract was pointed out by Committee Member Sato, whether it is a problem of cognition or there is a need in the first place. From the perspective of an engineer like me, I wonder if function is actually good. For example, when we search, if the search results expected by the local governments have not been obtained, the contract will not proceed. In the first, second, and today's explanation, there has been little discussion on whether the function is appropriately used for the search. The reason for this is rather due to the lack of understanding of the local governments. Although it is required in the procurement contract, whether the search was appropriate or not can be determined by interviewing. My first question is how the search was conducted.
As for the second point, being able to register on the Internet is not a bad thing by any means, but what is a little worrisome is that when there are not so many registered SaaS, if there is only one specific SaaS, to be honest, if you put a high price there, it may increase the sense of market price. When the person in charge sees it, he or she thinks it is the market price. This part means, is it OK if I don't worry about that?

Group in charge: The first point is whether search engines are working effectively. This is also a qualitative issue at present. However, based on interviews with some local governments, we can see the data we are actually searching. However, looking at what kind of things are being searched, there are quite a few variations. I think that there are places where the actual search results hit what we are looking for.
However, this is an area that has not been properly verified, so we would like to review the search function again in the future.
As for the second point, the price, if it is really narrowed down to the last one, whether it will be an appropriate price or not, when we actually sign a contract, it will not be that we sign a contract again at the end with the standard price.

Chairman SATO: . Setting aside the question of whether or not a contract will be concluded, the question is whether looking at the contract will create a sense of the market price. If a high price is entered there, one would think that the price is in that field. Therefore, I think it is good to enter a price when competition has been established to some extent. However, if this is not the case, there is a possibility that the opposite direction will be taken.

Group in charge: Regarding this point, for example, if there is only one party, after all, there will basically be a choice between procuring with SaaS or procuring from scratch. In such a case, if we can obtain quotes from vendors and compare which is truly higher, I think we can verify whether it is truly an appropriate standard price. However, in the end, in the case of procurement based only on DMP, if there is no multiple competing software, I think there may be a case where such a conviction is formed. Therefore, we would like to proceed while verifying how often such a situation exists.

Chairman SATO: .
, please.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in If you listen to the figures normally, it sounds like a big failure at present, but it costs 110 million yen every year. This is, for example, I think that we will proceed here in belief that it will grow rapidly from next fiscal year and turn into a great success. Do you have a withdrawal line in mind? In a situation where the number of searches has increased several times from 240 per day, 28 million yen in contracts have been concluded annually. If you count 0. some% of them as this DMP case, 110 million is not worth it at all.
Therefore, I believe that the Government of Japan should set a line to indicate that if it does not reach this level within a certain number of years, it will be terminated. Otherwise, the Government of Japan will not be able to fulfill its accountability to the people of Japan. What do you think about this?

Group in charge: On this point, the current situation is that a withdrawal line has not been decided.
I think there are two directions. First, I think it is necessary to review whether the operating cost of 110 million yen is appropriate in the first place. I would like to consider how to reduce it together.
Another point is, of course, how to increase the number of achievements. On this point, as I mentioned earlier, we need to identify the users who are using our services more, and we need to verify in a more detailed manner how much we can increase the number of cases. Therefore, after sorting out these issues, we will also sort out the lines of withdrawal.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in How much of the value of the deal do you think is attributable to this DMP contribution? The current amount is 28 million yen.

Group in charge: and others.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in In other words, if this had not been done, the procurement price would have been much higher. Or, it would not have been found in the first place, which resulted in lower convenience for local governments. How are the benefits counted when analyzing the benefits of public works, etc.? If it is not possible to judge that it is worth doing if the cost is this much for the benefits, I think it will not be possible to make a decision on withdrawal.

Group in charge: One thing is that there is a difference between the cost of procuring what was developed from scratch and the cost of procuring with SaaS here. I think there is one point.
This is at the level of what is generally advertised on companies' websites, etc., but in general, costs are about 60% lower when done with SaaS, and when that is added to 28 million yen and multiplied, how much the cost can be saved is calculated, and I think that it can be an evaluation index.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in If that can be done to a certain extent, we will be able to stand on our own by collecting fees. If we can reduce costs that much, we will be able to stand on our own because we will use it if it is cheaper than that, but for example, how many years will it take? I think the minimum line is something like making a single-year surplus in seven or eight years.

Group in charge: Unless we sit down and proceed with this for about five years, we will not be able to improve our results, I believe. So, while considering such a line, how much we can increase our procurement results? For example, as I mentioned earlier, it is not development from scratch but procurement, and we will proceed with our consideration while evaluating how much benefit will be generated.

Chairman SATO: , do you have a minute?

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I understand.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: I am sorry. Although we are in the middle of the discussion, I would like to ask the committee members to give their final opinions based on the questions and discussions. I would like to get concise comments from each committee member in order and have Chairman Sato compile them. Regarding the order, I am sorry but I would like to ask you to give your final opinions in the order of the Japanese syllabary. I would like to ask Member Iwasaki, Member Ohta, Member Motohiro Sato, and Member Hiruka to give their final opinions in that order. Thank you.
First, may I start with Committee Member Iwasaki?

CR: Thank you, .
I would like to repeat myself, but I think the important point is how much we have contributed to the finance through this project, so at this point in time, I think that spreading it will eventually lead to that. I would like to ask you to thoroughly consider the cost of spreading it.
That's it.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Thank you very much, Mr. Ota.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I would like to ask you to conduct a thorough cost-benefit analysis, draw up a plan with an estimate of how long it will take to break even, or how long it will take to turn a profit in a single fiscal year, and clarify the withdrawal line.
That's it.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Committee member Motohiro Sato, please start.

SATU: issue, it is necessary to further verify whether it is really a matter of perception or a matter of need. What I think should be confirmed first of all is whether there is really no private sector competing with the digital marketplace. In fact, the private sector is also conducting sales activities. Therefore, I think it is necessary to confirm whether there are really no private sector competitors or services that can replace the digital marketplace. Also, you mentioned earlier that there are quite a lot of searches, but I'm concerned about what the searchers are searching for, and I think it would be better to look more closely at what the searchers are looking at. For example, when you just bid for something, if you are searching just to check the reference price or the market price, you would not want to use it from the beginning. If you want to see what kind of services are available, a good match should lead to a contract. Therefore, it would be better to see where their needs are when they are already searching.
As Dr. Ota mentioned earlier, I understand that you need to wait and see for a while. However, I also thought that it would be better to set a certain time limit to produce results rather than to continue to drag things out.
That's it.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: , I would like to ask for your cooperation.

Member: Hiroshi .
Basically, I have the same opinion as everyone else, but it's Digital Agency, and I understand that there is a saying that SaaS must also be used in the Japanese market. However, when we say whether this business is important or not, to be honest, it is difficult to judge because there is too little track data and track records.
In addition, to be honest, I did not fully understand how many advantages there are. There were many qualitative discussions in the explanation, and it was actually the case that there were only qualitative discussions. So if I were to talk about qualitative discussions, for example, if I could hear the voices of business operators who have actually been posted here and local governments who have used them, I think the understanding would have progressed a little more.
Therefore, leaving data, and deciding the exit line in case it doesn't work well, and then thinking about how much publicity you have to force in order to make it work well, I was wondering if it was really B/C, so I felt that I needed to make a little effort on how much data I should leave, and if it was only qualitative, how much I could show that it was really useful.
That's it.

Chairman SATO: .
Then, based on the opinions of the committee members, I will summarize it on my side.
I have raised four points of contention. The first is an analysis of the reasons why current procurement performance is not necessarily sufficient, as well as measures to improve performance. With regard to this point, Committee Member Sato and Committee Member Nakazora both asked whether this figure was appropriate in the first place. Since there is no market sentiment, there was a comparison with the UK case as a market sentiment. However, I believe it was difficult to make a comparison with the UK case. However, it is not the case that we cannot establish market sentiment due to a lack of market sentiment, or that we cannot establish figures, so I would like to see continued efforts made on this point.
In addition, several reasons for not concluding a contract were pointed out. Member Sato raised the issue of whether awareness or needs fall into one of the two categories, and as I also pointed out, with 1,200 searches per week, awareness may not be sufficient. In addition, there was the issue of low awareness of SaaS. However, as long as local governments understand SaaS, they can use it, and I feel that awareness is not the only cause. One of the issues is whether there is a need in the first place, as pointed out by Member Sato. As for the rest, as I mentioned, search is the core technology, but it is not good that not much research has been conducted on whether search is appropriate or not, so I think it would be better to conduct research in the future.
Also, the DMP usage target and KPI for the entire administrative system. At this point, in the first and second discussions, we asked you to look at the number of contracts rather than the number of searches, and we will continue to do so this time. In terms of costs, it costs a lot of money, so you should consider whether or not to continue this project. I think that Committee Members Ota and Sato have told us that numerical targets are necessary based on that. Therefore, I think it would be better for you to submit numerical targets for the timing issue of when it will be completed and how long it will be continued or not. However, when people are replaced due to personnel changes, etc., it is unfortunate for the person in the section in charge to continue something that does not improve performance, so I think it would be better if you could set a target for that.
Other than that, it is a matter of differentiation from similar private sector services. Here as well, there are similar services in the private sector, so it is just a matter of whether they will compete or not. I believe that Member Sato and Member Hiruka have already mentioned, but I think it would be better for you to consider this matter carefully. To put it in an extreme way, if private sector SaaS can be used by local governments with some function improvements, it may be possible that it will be cheaper. I would like you to consider this point as well. Also, regarding the issue of how to cover the system usage fee, as it has been mentioned by Committee Member Ota and others, if there is a cost involved, we will cover it. As one of the decisions on the continuity of this project, I think it would be better to decide at an early stage the timing and the idea of price, such as how much usage fee will be charged.
As another point of contention, Commissioner Iwasaki mentioned that basically, it is important to contribute to the reduction of the budget. At present, we are required to expand this service, so it will not be immediately. Although it may be a discussion on a certain type of KPI, I am a little forgetful about how much the reduction effect will be and whether it was an empty committee, but I would like you to look at the effect of financial cuts and the contribution to local governments by continuing the system, including whether there are services that can be used or not and properly contributing to local governments.
Also, from my point of view, there are many qualitative points in the answers, which was pointed out by Committee Member Sora, but unless we present comments from local government officials or SaaS providers at some point, looking at the current figures alone, to be honest, everyone will have a negative impression, so I think it would be better if you could come up with something about that.
There are some things I said while roughly remembering what I just said, but please tell me if I missed something. That's all. Is it all right?
Then, you can send it to me by e-mail or other means later, so I will summarize it here.
In that case, I will move on to the next project. As for the digital marketplace, thank you very much for your explanation.
Next, let's move on to the discussion on the national qualification information coordination and utilization system project. First of all, from the project manager of this project, I would like to ask you to explain the project. Thank you in advance.

Group in charge: Nice to meet you.
My name is Ishikiri Yama and I am a digitalization in charge of National Qualification Director for Policy Planning in Group of Service for Citizens, Digital Agency. I am pleased to meet you.
Now, I have projected the material, so I would like to explain based on this.
The first page summarizes the outline and other information, so rather than on this page, I would like to present the outline and other information on the second and subsequent pages. Regarding these qualifications, utilizing My Number System, it is aimed at promoting digitalization, such as making various application procedures online, and certifying and presenting national qualifications.
An overview of this system is shown in the "Overview of digitalization" on the next page. For many clerical works related to national qualifications, which were originally operated based on paper media, My Number System will be utilized, various application procedures will be made online, and digitalization for credential information linkage will be promoted.
I have attached an outline at the bottom. Along with the outline, Measures 1, 2, and 3 are written in light blue squares. I think this is the key point. Qualified personnel will be able to utilize this system at My Number Card. First, regarding the use of the system, we will realize online applications at Mynaportal. This is included in Measure 1. We will utilize Public Personal Authentication through Mynaportal and My Number Card. We will utilize digitalization for online applications and, of course, for strict identity verification.
This is Measure 2. The data linkage part. By linking with the Juki Net, family register, and other systems, we will omit the attached documents that have been required in various ways in the paper-based procedures. In addition, by linking with My Number, we will of course be able to omit the attached documents and link with the registered authentic and accurate information.
In addition, as Measure 3, digitalization for submission of credentials, as I would like you to look at examples later, by utilizing Mynaportal APIs, etc., we will be able to display and present credentials on smartphones, etc., instead of operating mainly with paper credentials, and also be able to provide one's own credentials through the Mynaportal APIs, which will be supplemented later. By aiming for these things as a whole system, what used to be paper-based will be entirely moved online and digitalization will be conducted, and by promoting collaboration and online applications, utilization will be made easier.
On the next page, I have summarized the schedule for starting the use of this system. We have gradually expanded it so far, but the latest one is attached to the next page, so I will explain it here. As for the materials published since the last time in June 2026, we have sorted them out by fiscal year. As you can see on the far left, it was started by fiscal 2025, so it is currently 21 qualifications. However, this system has started to be used for 21 qualifications below care workers. We have been coordinating mainly on qualifications related to tax and social security, and we are starting with these 21 qualifications.
As for the future outlook, where we say "scheduled to begin," first of all, within this fiscal year, which is in the middle here, there are 28 qualifications, including doctors and teachers, and we plan to start using them within this fiscal year, so we would like to steadily proceed. In addition, although it will be after fiscal 2027, I have written that there are 81 remaining qualifications. There are first class architects, followed by various qualifications, and others, and we would like to gradually expand the use of these qualifications as well. First of all, there are still 21 qualifications at this point, but we believe that steadily expanding the use of these qualifications is a currently necessary initiative.
After the next page, I would like to summarize the major opinions we have received from the committee members in the past meetings. In terms of the overview, the first is how much the cost per application will be reduced. As I said with the 21 qualifications, overall, as the use expands depending on the target qualifications and the number of applications, the cost per application is expected to decrease. However, at this point, it is difficult to estimate it to an accurate extent. However, since cost reductions are expected in areas such as abolishing the existing system, reducing over-the-counter services, and reducing the burden on applicants, we believe this initiative is not just a cost investment but an initiative with clear cost-effectiveness.
In addition, what is related to the scene of use is the second half of the next page. In this, in the discussion about who the beneficiaries refer to, we have received various points. In the overview of the system that you saw earlier, directly, applications are made by those who hold qualifications, and the qualifications administrator of the organization that manages the application submits the application and manages it. If you look mainly at the overview diagram from earlier, this is the direct assumption of the system, but I believe that if it is actually utilized, it will benefit a wider range of citizens.
One point. On page 7, I mentioned that this digital certificate not only makes it easy to apply and manage, but also allows you to view it on your smartphone. In fact, using the tamper-proof function of the digital certificate, various crimes have been reported. This will lead to strengthening crime deterrence capabilities and preventing such incidents. In fact, the digital certificate has a QR code embedded in it, as shown on the left side of this image. If you scan this with your smartphone, this verification site will have a mechanism where you can firmly confirm whether or not this qualification is actually valid.
For example, as you can see on the next page, there have been arrest cases in the past in which teachers who had expired licenses were able to slip through the checks, leading to these crimes. Also, as you can see at the bottom of this page, there have been cases where crimes were committed through the forgery of qualification certificates by unqualified persons regarding medical licenses and the like. In addition, I have placed a section on the right-hand side that calls attention to unqualified acts by hairdressers' licenses issued by the city. Regarding such unqualified acts and acts that should not be done in the first place, this digital qualification certificate can be used to firmly confirm eligibility. I believe that we can smoothly operate this entire system with trust, and that by operating the qualification system in a way that can be confirmed with solid evidence, the citizens who receive the services will also benefit.
In addition, specific usage scenarios are described in the following. I mentioned earlier that the direct user is a qualification holder or qualification administrator, but for qualification holders, it is not only that it becomes easier at the application stage and labor is saved, but also that some of them can be fully utilized in their daily work. For example, as shown here as an example, in the daily work of a certified social insurance and labor consultant, there were cases where documents such as the submission of the labor attorney's trademarks and certificates related to the agency of the submission were required on paper. In fact, by utilizing the digital qualification certificate through this portal, such daily work burden is reduced.
Lastly, I would like to introduce the utilization method of providing information on held qualifications to private companies. Although it is only circled at the bottom of the overview figure you saw at the beginning, through Mynaportal APIs and other means, for example, information on your qualifications, and that you are a qualified person, can be provided to private companies such as human resource platform operators and companies that employ you. This can facilitate smooth employment and support active participation. We believe that this will benefit the citizens who receive the services.
I am sorry to rush you, but with regard to the System for Coordination and Utilization of National Qualification Information, I have completed the overview and utilization status. Thank you very much.

Chairman SATO: .
Now, I would like to move on to the discussion. As I mentioned earlier, I would like to ask questions and receive opinions from the committee members, including what was pointed out in the first and second meetings. It is fine to follow the four points that have been presented as points of contention, and it does not matter if it is something other than this, so I would like to receive your opinions. Thank you.
Mr. Ota, please go ahead.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in First of all, I would like to ask you to confirm the facts. According to the review sheet, is it correct to understand that it costs about 3 billion yen to 4 billion yen every year? What is this used for?

Group in charge: I would like you to take a look at the review sheet. On the second page, the major categories are development and maintenance-related and operation and maintenance. These are roughly 3 billion and 2 billion for development and maintenance-related, and around 1 billion for operation and maintenance-related. We have been posting them since the year when recording started. Therefore, if the scope of eligibility is expanded for new ones, in response to that, we will have new responses for development and maintenance-related. In addition, the operation and maintenance cost for the actual operation of the system is around 1 billion yen at the bottom. This is the situation.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in Even if the system is not upgraded, it will cost one billion yen each to maintain it, and by increasing the number of qualifications, the cost of new development will increase by 2 billion to 3 billion years.

Group in charge: That's right.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in 2 billion and 3 billion are proportional to the number of people with the qualifications. Does it not change much even if the number increases?

Group in charge: , rather than the number of people, the characteristics of the work of the qualifications, or the operation of the work when issuing a license, if it is like this, the scale of renovation for that purpose will be large, so in a place where it is uniformly proportional to the number of holders.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in . Is this reasonable compared to other systems? On the surface, I think that several billion yen is a huge amount.

Group in charge: .
This is a situation where most of the current national qualifications are not yet capable of handling online applications themselves. For example, qualifications 120 and 130, which I am taking as an example, are handled by creating a common box in each Digital Agency rather than procuring individual systems. Other qualifications are handled elsewhere, but we will handle what is common. In terms of cost effectiveness, we believe we can implement this more efficiently.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in That's exactly what you said, and I think it would be absolutely better if they were all together. Even so, does it take that long?

Group in charge: That's right. At present, we have common systems such as the information linkage system for My Number, online function, and cashless function, so I think the reason is that we inevitably incur certain costs.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in Of course, I think it will be much cheaper than doing it on a paper basis, but have you calculated the rough estimate of the cost in the case of doing it on a paper basis? How much it costs now will be reduced this much by this, or it will cost this much if it is done for each individual qualification, but by unifying it, it can be reduced this much.

Group in charge: If we compare the case where this system is created for each of all the qualifications we are currently considering with the case where the system is created as the foundation we are currently considering, when we make certain estimates of the market prices of individual systems, we are estimating that the total maintenance cost will differ by about 100 billion yen.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in .

Chairman SATO: .
The question by Commissioner Ota was that even if a common infrastructure is established, accompanying documents and other materials differ considerably depending on the qualifications. Therefore, the reason why Commissioner Ota came to the question is that the scope of the common infrastructure is not written, so it is not clear how many qualifications can be accommodated. Also, regarding the cost model you just mentioned, I do not know the number of applications. Each application probably requires a cost, but the intention was that it would be inappropriate to submit a cost model without actually showing the number of applications.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in I didn't give it that much thought, but my question was simple. In the end, what is the proportion of the cost, and why does the development cost amount to several billion yen? I haven't come up with anything like that.

Chairman SATO: .
Now, Committee Member Sato, please.

SATU: At the beginning, I would like to ask one question. The first one is that all the teaching certificates that we talked about earlier are issued by prefectural governments. Therefore, the prefectural governments are small, as shown in Note 3 in the materials. Some of the prefectural governments have started online digitalization. Therefore, is it safe to assume how much this is actually spreading in prefectural governments now?

Group in charge: Prefectural governments will continue to participate one after another. As you are aware, each prefecture will implement its own plan, and since each of the 47 prefectures is implementing the plan, which would only be done by each ministry and agency of the central government, we will work on it and coordinate with each prefecture to introduce the plan.

SATU: I just want to know what the market is like. Am I correct in thinking that the prefectures that are currently participating are metropolitan areas like Tokyo, or regional areas like Hokkaido?

Group in charge: one by one, but I feel that there are some prefectures that coordinate from the north to the south.

SATU: .
Also, about the long-term outcome. This is a review sheet, and the long-term outcome is basically the promotion of online applications related to procedures for national qualifications, etc., and the outcome indicator is the number of applications made. I understand that, but I think the actual number of applications is based on the total of online and paper applications. The target of about 10% of that is, in other words, 90% of it is still paper-based, I think. This 10% is, of course, a large number in terms of the number of applications, but if 10% of the total applications are made with this, is it correct to understand that the remaining 90% will be made with paper, or is it correct to understand that an individual online system will be used? In any case, I think the target is low.
Group in charge: , regarding how to set the target value, it is true that the target value is set at 10%, and as you asked, 90% includes those who individually apply online, especially prefectures. In addition, paper ones are also included. Regarding 10%, as the person in charge, the target value is currently set by your side.
Group in charge: Rather than the goal of 10%, it will be described in the sense that it is estimated based on the fact that it is about 10% in the current workload survey as of fiscal 2025.
SATU: I see. If that is the case, what we need to figure out in the future is what percentage is used for each qualification. In other words, whether you are a doctor, nurse, care worker or teacher, if you look at what percentage is used against the denominator of the application, you will be able to tell which qualifications have needs and which qualifications do not have needs or are not progressing. If you look at this in total, various things will be a mixture of wheat and chaff, so I thought it would be better to see that. The last one is comments.
Lastly, since this is the Administrative Project Review, I always have to ask this question. Earlier, Professor Ota pointed out that the running cost of 1 billion yen might be too high. But this is a unilateral bidding process, isn't it? NTT DATA is a unilateral bidding process, Accenture is a unilateral bidding process, and for some reason, Mizuho is also a unilateral bidding process. Furthermore, the ratio of successful bids is 100%. Therefore, going back to the 1 billion yen discussion earlier, it also goes back to the development cost. I wonder how much of this cost we can assume to be appropriate. I think the honest reaction would be that there is no competitiveness.

Group in charge: .
Unilateral bidding has been the case so far, but this fiscal year, we are also considering this as a very important issue, how to ensure competitiveness from the perspective of reducing costs, and up until last fiscal year, we had been approaching candidate operators and inviting them to participate. This fiscal year, as a result of that, there were applications from multiple companies, and as a result, the successful bid amount has also decreased. As you pointed out, I believe the importance of ensuring competitiveness was exactly as you pointed out, so although the price was slightly lowered this time, we would like to continue to work on the participation of operators so that this can be continued properly.

SATU: Do you mean that NTT DATA develops the system and other companies do the running?

Group in charge: In both operation and development, we have multiple business operators participate to ensure competitiveness.

SATU: project.

Group in charge: You are right.

SATU: I see. Thank you very much.

Chairman SATO: , I would like to ask you, Committee Chairman Hiroshi Nakada.

Member: Hiroshi .
Thank you for your explanation. I'm sorry, I think I missed the point. What's the difference between pages three and four in your explanation? The schedule and so on are in there.

Group in charge: In previous explanations, I have explained that 21 qualifications will be qualified by the end of FY 2025. However, recently, I have clarified a little how to divide the period, and some qualifications are divided by calendar year.

Member: Hiroshi , there is a slight difference between 130 and 140. I wonder why there is such a difference. It is not a major topic.
The second point is, how many national qualifications are there in total? That's the second point. The reason for this is that when we think about how much we can expand in the future, we naturally wonder how many more we will have.
As for the third point, while saying that, there are quite a few such as doctors and teachers that I think will be a large number and those that I don't think will be so. It may be a mixture of wheat and chaff, but in the end, if there are a large number of people, I feel that there will be many things to investigate whether they are true or not. In that case, the public side will have more needs from those who do not have these qualifications but want to see them. I think how much money will be spent on increasing the number of unnecessary things, whether it is light or not. I feel that there are some, but whether it is natural to have all of them because they are national qualifications, or whether it is right to focus on these first because there are many people who need them. I think both are right, but I think it is better to decide which one.
It would be ideal to have all of them, and I also thought it would be an easy system that would allow us to register more and more in My Number Card, but if it costs money, then I feel that it would be better to start with those who are necessary, those who want to check, and those who are necessary for both parties. In that case, I am wondering why this order arose. Does this mean that they started from what they could do, or did they do it according to their needs? I thought I would have to consider this as well, so I wanted to know the total amount, the necessity, and the percentage of the total population. I would also like to know about such things. Even if there are dozens of people doing it, one qualification is one qualification, but if there are tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people, it is normal to start with them first, so I would like to ask you a question.
The rest of the questions were answered last time, so I would like to end here. Thank you.

Group in charge: .
The total number of national qualifications is between 300 and 400. I am sorry that I do not have an accurate figure.

Member: Hiroshi Who has jurisdiction over this? Is there no jurisdiction because they are separated?

Group in charge: That's right, each ministry.

Member: Hiroshi It's because each ministry and agency has one. I see.

Group in charge: , I mentioned earlier that the minimum qualification is 21. First of all, we have been expanding qualifications related to tax and social security. This requires My Number Card, so it will be done along with legal amendments. In terms of what kind of areas we will work on next, I think we have to do so while carefully considering areas where there are high needs and areas where there are high necessities.
Under these circumstances, up to the 81 qualifications that have been decided to be implemented in and after fiscal year 2027, the newly established qualifications have been provided for by the amendments to the relevant laws. Since we are aiming to introduce the qualifications up to this point, I do not think there are any qualifications that are particularly emphasized. However, in line with the previous question, I believe that we must make steady efforts to understand the needs and actual usage of the qualifications in the future. Therefore, I would like to firmly recognize this as another common issue.

Member: Hiroshi .
If possible, I think it would be good to know the number of people in parentheses to see how many people are qualified, so if there is anything you can do, please do it. Thank you.

Chairman SATO: , Committee Member IWASAKI, please.

CR: Thank you, , thank you for your explanation. I am Iwasaki.
Based on the discussions we have had thus far, I would like to ask if you have any thoughts on the burden of usage fees, which is understandable in terms of policies. Population decline, aging population and declining birth rate will continue. For example, the younger generation will decrease by 35% in 2040. If the working population decreases, the number of qualifications obtained by people in this area will decrease. On the other hand, as the population ages, there will be qualifications such as medical and nursing care, which will increase or decrease depending on the qualifications. As a result, the value of national qualification information linkage will vary depending on the type of qualification.
I think it is also important to consider how to quantify these indirect benefits in the future. If you have any thoughts at this point in time, please tell us. Thank you.

Group in charge: .
In terms of usage fees, for example, needs, and as was discussed earlier, the scope of benefits, these are the issues that need to be carefully taken into consideration for consideration, I think.
In the previous question, I mentioned that I have a prospect that this infrastructure can be realized at a much lower cost than developing it individually. In addition, although there are currently 21 qualifications, I think it is necessary to continue to make adjustments so that the number of people who can enjoy this benefit can be increased by expanding the introduction even a little in the future. Currently there are 21 qualifications, but first of all, we will strive to expand their use.
In this context, regarding the system usage fee, which was pointed out earlier, I think there are various ideas as we work on the phase of expanding usage, but I think we need to consider that suddenly setting a usage fee at this point in time may hinder early introduction in light of the current phase of expanding usage. However, as we consider it in the future, I believe that the number of registered users and the frequency of use may not be uniform, although there has been a suggestion that the actual user and needs may differ depending on the national qualification. However, as we consider it in the future, I believe that the number of registered users and the frequency of use may not be uniform, although there has been a suggestion that the actual function and needs may differ depending on the function.
Therefore, we will carefully look at the actual usage situation in the future, and consider what level of system usage fees will be convincing when they are actually set, and what kind of specific level of burden can be appropriately set when it is replaced by the burden on individual organizations. We will also consider how to appropriately understand the needs based on these assumptions. There are many issues that should be very carefully considered.
Therefore, at this point in time, it may be difficult to do so as soon as possible. However, I believe that we need to continue to conduct research on how to do this and how it should be, while carefully looking at what we need to pay attention to.

Chairman SATO: .
In that case, I am not sure if it is OK for the chair to ask questions, but I would like to ask you a few questions. Commissioner Ota has talked about the cost. I also think the cost model should be more detailed. In the response to Commissioner Ota in the material this time, it is written that, for example, it will fall to several hundred yen in the mid - to long-term. My first question is whether there is any basis for that.
Also, in terms of cost, even if this system is introduced, paper-based eligibility verification will not be abolished immediately. Or rather, if it is rather mainstream, then including this system will end up being a double investment. If the frequency of eligibility verification is that low, it will actually be cheaper to keep it paper-based. Since there will be no additional cost for this system, I wonder if this was properly evaluated.
In addition, this is related to the long-term direction of this project. If the duality of the paper-based system and this system is not good, the paper-based system will be temporarily abolished. Depending on the qualifications, it may be better to do so, but in that case, from the perspective of various people, such as the organizations that issue the qualifications and the businesses that look at the qualifications, there are transition costs when changing from paper to electronic. If we don't keep an eye on this point, it may be good for the Digital Agency, but for society as a whole, the cost will rather increase. I think we cannot say it is appropriate unless you include that point.
In addition, this is related to the discussion by Commissioner Ohta. As far as I know, it is very good to hear that it will be developed as a common infrastructure. However, if the needs differ depending on the qualifications in the first place, it might have been cheaper to use a simplified version or separate grades such as pine, bamboo and plum instead of one. Also, from the perspective of vender lock-in, the common infrastructure tends to be vender lock-in. In the private sector, in fact, it does not depend on only one point. The reason is that it is easy to vender lock-in. Therefore, although the cost of common infrastructure is low in the short term, it is easy to cause vender lock-in in the long term. In other words, the cost of changing it is very high. Is this included in your consideration?
To be honest with you, there is a possibility that the cost will be reduced if you divide them into sho-chiku-bai and place orders for the most suitable items for each of them, and if one thing doesn't go well, you adjust the sho-chiku-bai part. In this regard, there is a little common ground, which is true from the viewpoint of short-term tax savings, but from the viewpoint of engineers, it is not so easy. What do you think?

Group in charge: .
As for the initial cost, although what I am writing here is written in a very contradictory way, the idea is that all of the 128 qualifications that we are currently assuming are listed, and we assume that this will happen. In addition, based on the survey we are actually conducting in FY 2025, we have estimated how much online applications will expand in the future, and how much online applications will grow in light of the current situation when all of the 128 qualifications are listed. We have estimated the ratio of online applications when all qualifications are actually listed and at that time, and based on that assumption, we calculated the amount per case to be around several hundred yen. Therefore, rather than saying that everything is online, it is a trial calculation on the assumption that a certain amount of paper remains.

Chairman SATO: That is true, but the current several hundred yen is the cost per application. As a premise, you are saying that all 128 qualifications will be included, but the cost is based on the application, so apart from whether the qualifications are 128 or not, the cost will change depending on the number of applications, so in reality, the number of registered qualifications does not have much to do with it, does it?

Group in charge: That's right.

Chairman SATO: This may be Professor Ota's area of expertise.

SATU: . So, even if you register, if there is no need to confirm your qualifications, it will not progress at all. On the other hand, although it may be the same for medical licenses, for those who need to confirm their qualifications and whose applications are made frequently, the number of applications will increase dramatically with just one application, so the denominator will increase. So, I think it depends on what you put in.

Chairman SATO: It should not be that because you have registered at least 128 qualifications, it will be reduced to a few hundred yen. That is why I am asking for the basis for this.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in , I would like to ask you a question. Does this figure include indirect costs? Does it also include development costs? The meaning is completely different depending on whether the fixed costs of the system development costs are included after being divided by the number of cases, or just by that amount.

Group in charge: As I said just now, operating expenses.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in , by the number of cases is possible. It is possible that tens of billions of yen will be needed to establish such a system.

Group in charge: That's right. It will not be included in the expenses.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in 2 billion Since it is paid every year, if all of them are included, it could amount to tens of billions of yen.

Group in charge: , what's the possibility?

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in We won't go hundreds, we will go over 100.

Group in charge: At least outside the operating expenses.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in After excluding that, dividing the number of applications by the operating cost is several hundred yen. Considering how many years it will take to recover the development cost, how many thousands of yen will it be? Could it be 10000 yen or something?

Group in charge: It is probably several thousand yen, and currently it is 900 yen, but I do not think it will be in tens of thousands.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in .

Group in charge: Roughly now. I wonder if it will be the case where the denominator increases.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in You have assumed that, and you have decided that it is better to do it within the budget. You do a so-called break-even analysis, or CVP analysis, consider the fixed costs, and say that it is better to do it because it will pay off in how many years.

Group in charge: Yes.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in If that is what you are considering, I thought it would be easier to understand if there were some kind of material like that.

Chairman SATO: Excuse me, my next question was about double investment.

Group in charge: Basically, if the online service increases the usage rate and people can use it, it will reduce the burden on both applicants and administrators. However, in reality, there are some cases where both services are used at the same time. To what level will that be in the future?

Chairman SATO: , the purpose of my question is that if you do both paper and online, it will be a double investment. Therefore, if the number of cases is small, paper may be sufficient. As you just mentioned, in the long term, if there is a shift to online, then business operators and individuals who are currently doing paper work will have to deal with the system, which will generate transition costs for society. Taking that into account, whether this project is beneficial or not is the point. So, in short, is the social cost being calculated?

Group in charge: We have not calculated that far.

Chairman SATO: In that case, if qualifications are relatively infrequent, the more we move online, the more expensive it will be if we have only that, so I think it's OK.

Group in charge: .
As an example, some organizations have been using this service since last year. As for qualifications, it is costly to have both a paper counter and an online counter, and some organizations have reduced some counters as they respond to online applications. As we move to digital and online, we need to make sure to make this kind of transition. If paper remains and online remains, as you pointed out, the current situation is that double costs are incurred. Therefore, we would like to make sure to make this transition in this initiative.

Chairman SATO: If you decide to migrate, there will be a migration cost for the vendor and the individual. If you don't calculate that, you can't say online is wonderful.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in This reminds me of a common example. Something that is done only once a year is called DX, so it became a system. However, the system is very difficult to use, and it takes 2-3 hours to remember how to use the system and read the manual. If it was on paper, all I had to do was write it down and submit it. By going online, there is a possibility that a huge additional cost will be incurred. In particular, if the system is used infrequently and is difficult to use, it will be a serious problem. This is actually the case. If it is easy to do, it would be great if it could be done quickly without looking at the manual. However, if a system takes 10 to 15 minutes just to find out where a desired button is, I think it could greatly increase the social cost. That is because as a user, especially for infrequent things, after a year they forget how to do it.

Group in charge: . However, when we discuss what kind of qualifications should be added in the future, we will fully take into account the merits of going online as you pointed out, as well as the actual transition costs.

Member: Hiroshi Can I ask you a different question?

Chairman SATO: , please.

Member: Hiroshi When doctors go to hospitals or teachers at schools, do they show their qualifications in some way?

Group in charge: Yes, please make sure to attach a copy of your certificate.

Member: Hiroshi Did you just say that there are false papers?

Group in charge: As shared in this document, probably for some reason.

Member: Hiroshi It means that it appears in a lie.

Group in charge: As I mentioned earlier, when it is verified with the digital qualification certificate, it is invalid.

Member: Hiroshi So you're saying that there are people in hospitals and schools who need certificates. Because you're finding the wrong things, you're saying that there were people who had cancer even though they weren't qualified doctors.

Group in charge: Yes.

Member: Hiroshi means that there are advantages to making it digital. It means that you will not be able to lie.

Group in charge: You are right.

Member: Hiroshi Then, if hospitals and schools do not want to be involved in strange things, it will be mandatory to register for it, and I think there will be a need for it. Is this the direction? If so, I guessed that we will be talking about the fact that we really need to shift to double investment as Chairman Sato mentioned earlier.

Group in charge: The direction is as you pointed out.
On the other hand, the system we have is inevitably the system operated by Digital Agency. For medical licenses, it is the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare, which has jurisdiction over the Medical Practitioners' Act. We need to have thorough discussions with each of them, and go as far as to make the necessary amendments to laws and regulations in order to advance digitalization. Actually, we use the system we issue.

Member: Hiroshi Does it mean that it is not possible?

Group in charge: That's something for the future. It's already possible with some qualifications, but this Online digitalization initiative is to work hard on this.

Member: Hiroshi I see.

Chairman SATO: , Committee Member, if the doctor is a fake, in the case of a company doctor, it is quite easy for his / her colleagues to find out. It is a private practice that causes problems. In a private practice, surprisingly, there is a point that who checks it.

Member: Hiroshi But university hospitals perform cancer surgery.

Chairman SATO: I would like to think that it is so, but there are also private surgery departments.

Member: Hiroshi Really?

SATU: : Some hospitals are run by one doctor, but there are general practitioners who are surgeons, so I can't say anything about that. Just because it's online doesn't mean you can find all the fakes.
I'm sorry, that wasn't my explanation, but now it's about time to put it together.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: Yes, thank you very much.
In that case, as I did earlier, I would like to hear final opinions from the members of the committee. Also, I apologize for bothering you in the order of the Japanese syllabary, but I would like you to give your final opinions in the order of Committee Member Iwasaki, Committee Member Ohta, Committee member Motohiro Sato, and Committee Member Sora.

CR: Thank you, .
I think it will be good to resolve the various issues one by one. I think it is important to consider the digital-first approach that Digital Agency has been aiming for and the efficient digitalization from the user's perspective. From the perspective of digital government, I think the question is how to balance the advantages and disadvantages of spending money on areas with low usage.
I think the significance of this system is that it can significantly reduce costs by creating this system, improve convenience by digitalization for qualified personnel, improve the quality of public services such as medical and nursing care services, and grasp the specialized personnel (essential workers) in times of emergencies (non-peacetime). In particular, in emergency situations, it is also significant to secure the mobilization of (necessary essential workers), where they are, so I would like you to take this point into consideration and proceed comprehensively.
That's it.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Committee Member Ota, please start.

Ohta: It is said that competitiveness in procurement will be secured in the future, and I think there will be pressure for the price to be lowered there. For example, in the case of unilateral bidding, the details of the cost will be examined and, depending on the case, a cost audit will be conducted. This is the way in which defense equipment and other items, for which unilateral bidding is inevitable, are examined. Probably, there is a table showing the unit price of public works as well. I think it would be good for you to consider some kind of system to reduce the cost in this way.
There are also other ways, such as submitting something after receiving an application, or depending on the number of people, I think the cost will be determined. So, I thought it would be good to further analyze what determines the cost.
That's it.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Next, Committee member Motohiro Sato, please.

SATU: : To the extent that there is no overlap, it would be better to properly understand the actual situation of applications and use, and there should be qualifications that are frequently applied and used and qualifications that are not so frequently applied and used. If so, it is originally desirable to proceed in the form of making the system online starting with the most frequently used qualifications. Therefore, I think it would be better to take a close look at these aspects. In addition, regarding the matter of double investments mentioned earlier, assuming that the system is actually made online in this way, I think it would be good to conduct the work of confirming what happens to the paper version and whether or not double investments remain.
That's all from me for now.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Well then, Commissioner Sora, if you'll excuse me.

Member: Hiroshi As for my opinion earlier, there are some points that overlap with those of other professors, but since it is the last, I would like to summarize it with three points.
The first is that we need you to start with what is needed.
The second point is that in order to avoid double investment, I would like to ask you to prioritize the use of digital qualifications.
The third point is, on top of that, I felt that the price was a bit too high, so I think it is important to do it efficiently.
That's it.

Chairman SATO: .
Now, taking into account the opinions of the committee members, I will summarize the meeting.
At the beginning of the compiled opinions, Committee Member Iwasaki mentioned digital-first, and since it is Digital Agency, I think it is important to proceed with digitalization because it must be done in good faith.
On the other hand, as Committee Member Iwasaki and other members also pointed out, the utilization rate differs depending on the qualifications. Regarding this point, in the first discussion, there was a question from the hollow members about how to select qualifications. The needs for online services differ depending on the qualifications, so it is important to start with what is needed. I have to have the impression that the current selection of qualifications is based on what can be done. I think it would be better to examine this point. On this point, I believe that Committee Member Sato has also compiled a similar opinion.
Also, Committee Member Iwasaki said that the usage fee is related to the decreasing population. I think what will happen when this number decreases is also a very important point of discussion, so I would like the Original Division to consider it.
Also, regarding the cost model, Commissioner Ota and I pointed out that, to be honest, the cost model is not so precise in some aspects. There are more various qualifications, and depending on the qualifications, slightly different information is required. Then, of course, the cost varies depending on the qualification, and as for the number of applications, the cost varies depending on whether the number of applications is large or small. Therefore, roughly speaking, if 128 qualifications are registered, the cost will be reduced this much. Instead of this idea, we will divide the qualifications into several groups, and what kind of time and effort will be required for the system. Then, based on the rough estimate of the price, how many of those qualifications are there? More importantly, from the perspective of how many applications are made for each grouped qualification, how much the actual cost will be from both the development cost and the operation cost. I think that would be a problem.
As for double investment, if there is a need for it, I think it would be good to move it online. However, if it is a type of business where qualification verification rarely occurs, I myself feel that there is no problem at all to keep it on paper. I would like to see a roadmap of what kind of business will be put online, including that kind of business, and whether or not double investment will be assumed temporarily at that time. No, all of that will be transferred online. Without seeing a roadmap for the period of double investment, I will not be able to understand how much it will actually cost for society as a whole. In particular, when we go online, there will be transition costs for individuals and businesses involved. In that regard, how much it will cost will be a rough indication, or rather, I think that without an estimate, we will not be able to see the social validity of the business.
I thought I had gathered everyone's opinions roughly. Is there anything you would like to add? Is it okay if I forget something?
Then, I think I'm okay.
Now, since there were no objections, I would like to conclude the discussion on the System for Cooperation and Utilization of Information on National Qualifications. I would like to work with the secretariat to compile the current report. Thank you very much to the person in charge.
Now that we have finished both of today's two projects, I would like to return the chairmanship to the secretariat. Thank you very much.

Sueyama Director for Policy Planning: .
Thank you very much to Chairman Satoh and members of the committee for the active discussion. The opinions and minutes compiled will be published on the Digital Agency website after being confirmed by members of the committee.
This concludes the 2026 Digital Agency Public Service Review process. Thank you very much for your time today.